Specific Contributions of the Innovators of Our Generation

[five eight]

You know your shit, benjamin, when it comes to Bruford, Cobham and Tony Williams. Your comparison of physical command/ergonomic command of the kit is spot on.

Huge stick height definitely wins the T-Bo 'Succinct Saying of the Quarter' award.

[Plaid]

This is kind of a difficult topic to start, but I'm hoping to get detailed responses. I guess we should start with the Big Two to whom this site is dedicated: VC and DW.

For me personally, here are the things I think of when I think of each of these guys:

Dave Weckl: Doubles on the drumset (be it hands or foot). I think he made drummers pay more attention to how evenly played doubles brings a whole other sound to it. I also think cymbal usage and selection of sounds pertaining to cymbals is a unique contributiion. He ALWAYS seems to know exactly what will work best with any given part when he uses his cymbals, no matter what brand/setup. From the Fusion I've listened to, he seems to be the guy who gave it a more "modern" sound (if you will), at least when it comes to the drumming. The music he plays with his solo band. He knows how to place accents musically, and usually produces very enjoyable tunes from a drum perspective, even if you don't really like the song itself....without overdoing it (most of the time).

Vinnie Colaiuta: The reasons for him are entirely different that DW, which is kind of weird since we kind of lump them both together so much. It really isn't as cut and dry for him. I think the first thing we all could agree on is his ability to make odd time/modulation sound completely interesting and musical. To me, it never sounds like he's doing a math problem when he plays it. Versatility is the obvious next choice (if not the first). The man can play any style, and make it sound good. I haven't even gotten to his technical ability yet. That's on a level all it's own, and though not the fastest cat out there, his solo playing is usually the most interesting for just about every reason. As Garfield said, the way he places his syncopations and accents set him apart from everyone else. My last contribution is the "element of surprise" factor that he brings to the table. Though, yes, he has a certain "bag of tricks" that he uses (right Steve [img]wink.gif[/img] ), he'll always surprise you with a slight deviation of similiar things, and make it sound totally different, which takes a certain mind that knows time inside and out to be able to do effectively. (Don't agree??? So why is it that when Vinnie plays with Keith frickin' Urban, you just HAVE to watch???) Vinnie is NOT a great musician who happens to play drums....he is without question a BORN drummer who (from what I've heard) KNOWS his instrument, and the purpose and function of said instrument.

Anyway, I could go on all day. Feel free to make your own observations about either of the two guys above, or any other drummers of our generation and their contributions. I'm hoping to hear from most of you, as I want to hear how YOU hear these people. That makes it more interesting! Cheers!

[FlamTriplet]

Sticking up for Virg!

Virgil is one hell of a drummer, just like Weck and Vinnie. Weck and Vinnie have been in the limelight a good 10-15 years before Virg came out.
And that's 10-15 years of other drummers playing their stuff.
So far there are not too many drummers playing Virgil's stuff, just a few maybe that are known.

And Gadd, jeez, everytown has some dude playing a recording custom kit with a Gadd haircut, playing paradiddles on the hihat and snare.....

[Nikk]

Here's how ridiculously narrow-minded and biased I am: I have trouble even considering the possibility that I will like a drummer who plays matched grip. It's just this dumb phase I'm going through right now. I've even had friends lie to me and say certain guys play traditional. When I say they sound great, they then tell me they play matched. Undoubtedly, I'm then turned off. Has anyone else experienced this? Man, please don't squash me for this one. It's hopefully a temporary ailment.

[FuseU1]

Naahh, don't worry, Nikk...
...'Tis but a passing phase of temporary insanity [img]tongue.gif[/img]
...Go get a modern day lawyer worth their salt...they'll bail ya out [on the technicality].... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 13, 2004 05:13 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[Plaid]

Originally posted by Nikk:
Here's how ridiculously narrow-minded and biased I am: I have trouble even considering the possibility that I will like a drummer who plays matched grip. It's just this dumb phase I'm going through right now. I've even had friends lie to me and say certain guys play traditional. When I say they sound great, they then tell me they play matched. Undoubtedly, I'm then turned off. Has anyone else experienced this? Man, please don't squash me for this one. It's hopefully a temporary ailment.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's interesting that you say this. I've actually wondered how people on this board feel about this very issue. Do you have a certain bias (again, not that there's anything at all wrong with having two asses) towards trad grip players? I personally do not. I think it just ends up that the trad players usually always end up playing the best stuff. (yes, I KNOW there are many exceptions, but you all get what I mean)

[Manos]

Oddly enough, I was just mulling over this idea the other day. It seems that EVERY top-notch player can play traditional grip, and tends to. Part of this, I'm sure, is that they group up with teachers who were very "traditional" in nature, since these monsters are 30-40s as it is. But, that's not to say that these guys don't ever play matched, either. Vinnie went through a time when he played matched, and I've seen other fabulous drummers play matched - they just tend to use conventional.

That said, even though I don't feel grip has any bearing on skill/etc, I have begun to develop my traditional grip, heh. I've taught myself everything I know on drums through books and resources on the internet, so I haven't had any personal instruction on any part of my drumming, let alone grip. Because of that, I just used matched because it was easiest and made the most sense at the time. Luckily, I developed the moeller technique and other great habits on my own by doing what felt most natural to me.

So I guess what I'm saying is, even though I don't see any reason why traditional grip should influence my opinion of a player or that player's actual ability, I am indeed learning to use it.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 13, 2004 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Manos ]</font>

[beat Hit]

Specific Contributions...

I say one of them being Dennis Chambers for sure! They way he funkyfied Fusion with John Scofield is phenomenal... Anyone here heard/seen Dennis on the "Brecker Brothers Live in Barcelona" video ?? Dennis' sloww and deeep groove on the second tune is ridiculously and outragously solid. How he literaly drives the band on the first track is out of this world. So for me, Dennis' contributions is not so much his fast hands as much as it is his contageous groove and pocket in Fusion. And of course, how he plays the hi-hat with his left hand has always inspired me big time.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 14, 2004 07:49 PM: Message edited by: beat Hit ]</font>

[Derek DeFields]

I think the biggest innovator hands down in the last 15 years at least is Virgil. I don't really consider Weckl or Vinnie of my generation since they were both well known LONG before I even considered drumming.

If I had to pick someone close to my age, I'd say Keith Carlock.

[shedder]

plaid, how can you say virgil is not fluid? that is 500% nonsense! yes, he sometimes muscles his drumming but who doesn't? even vinnie said in that clinic audio file that steve shared that you get a certain effect by muscling a single stroke roll compared to using rebound. i think it's impossible to play the way he does without being fluid. it's just not possible.

nikk, that is hilarious! i know how you feel!